April 24, 2008
CHARLES GIBSON: Good evening, and welcome. We’re here in Alton, Ill., for the senatorial debate featuring the incumbent Democrat Stephen Douglas and his Republican challenger Abraham Lincoln. The contest for the Illinois Senate seat has gone on for some time, to say the least. This is sort of round 125 in a scheduled 100-rounder. (Laughter)
LINCOLN: Thank you very much, Charlie and George. This is the seventh time Judge Douglas and I have met in these joint discussions, and he has been gradually improving in regard to his war with the administration. (Laughter) At Quincy, day before yesterday, he was a little more severe upon the administration than I had heard him upon any occasion, and I —
GIBSON: On that point, we’re going to take a break, a commercial break. The Senatorial debate from here in Alton will continue. Stay with us.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: And we’re back. Mr. Lincoln, talking to a closed-door fundraiser in Springfield 10 days ago, you were asked by a voter how long a man’s legs should be. You responded, “Long enough to reach the ground.” Do you understand that some people in this state find that patronizing and think that you said actually what you meant?
LINCOLN: Well, perhaps, but I was hoping we’d be able to focus tonight on the Nebraska bill and the repeal of the Missouri Compromise. I thought we might discus slavery as a moral, social, and political wrong and…
GIBSON: Senator Douglas?
DOUGLAS: Well, I am the son of a physician from Brandon, Vt., who worked his entire life there, mostly six-day weeks. He was very active in the local church. But he was, like me, a short-legged man, with an enormous head, and I think Mr. Lincoln’s remark represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the sensitivities of wee citizens.
LINCOLN: Let me just pick up on a couple of things that Senator Douglas said. It would be pretty hard for me to be condescending towards people who are abashed about their height, because I am a person whose extraordinary stature has oftentimes been a catalyst of some embarrassment. Let us return again to Judge Douglas’ Kansas-Nebraska Act that repealed the ban on slavery —
GIBSON: Okay, then. Since you last debated, Mr. Lincoln, you made a significant speech on the subject of equality, and yet you have been quoted as saying, “Common-looking people are the best in the world: that is the reason the Lord makes so many of them.” Again, sir, are you aware of the offense taken by common-looking people?
LINCOLN: Well…
GIBSON: And if you knew they might be offended, why did it take you more than a year to publicly disassociate yourself from the remark?
LINCOLN: Well, first of all, I wasn’t aware that the remark was being repeatedly transmitted via telegraph. And again, I would prefer that we focus on another of my maxims, namely, “Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.”
STEPHANOPOLOUS: Senator Douglas, care to reply, either in words or by rolling your eyes in mock exasperation?
DOUGLAS: (Rolls his eyes)
GIBSON: Mr. Lincoln, care to respond?
LINCOLN: To a facial expression? Charles, let me repeat that my remarks were made in jest, and that I include myself among the so-called “targets” of the gibes. As I’ve often said, “If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?” (No laughter) Yes, that’s a — well, another little joke — um — wow, tough crowd.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Lincoln, two questions. Number one, do you think Sen. Douglas loves America as much as you hate it? And number two, if you are elected senator, will you continue to make these “humorous” statements about people’s physical deformities?
LINCOLN: Statement’s about physical…? You know, George, I think the voters would prefer to discuss the slavery question, and the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, sir, since you raised the issue, I must ask: Why have you not taken the liberty to wear the American flag in your lapel? What do you have against Old Glory?
LINCOLN: Flag? Lapel?
GIBSON: George, I think we’ve gotten a little out of balance here. Let’s direct the same question to Mr. Douglas. Senator, why doesn’t “Honest Abe” here wear a flag pin?
DOUGLAS: (Rolls his eyes)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me turn to slavery. That is the number one issue on Americans’ minds right now, which is why we hope to address it in the last two minutes of our six-hour debate.
GIBSON: But first I’m going to go to a commercial break. And when we come back, I’d like to ask Mr. Lincoln about the beard. Stay tuned.